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Willhelm

Oil and Gasoline *some strong language*

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Every Day, 84 million barrels of oil are produced world wide, America consumes over 20 million barrels of oil a day One barrel of oil is 42 gallons,

 

America uses over 9 million barrels of gasoline every day Every Day America's gasoline prices increas, Every Day the price of desil increases more than gasoline.

 

Causing truckers out of work, causing the price of goods and food to skyrocket, gas prices allready cut far into the common man's pockets. With food prices on the rise, what money is left for other things?

 

The american economy is falling, ontrapanureships failing. And big buisness feeding off of all of it. Who wins out of this situation? Big buisness, who looses? Everyone else.

 

I mean, seriously... I love america, we're one of the few conteries with all the freedoms that we have. One of the smallest racial and subculture devides there are, but we're slowly being leached to death by big buisness and no one does ANYTHING about it. This contry's gonna fall. And then what are we gonna do?

 

Big buisness and oil/gas needs to be abbolished. We need to put more research into producing hydrogen fuel cells and using hydrogen and water to fuel our vehicles.

 

The only reason oil is still so prevolent is because the big oil companys have their hand so far up america's ass that we cant do anything about it. We're so dependant on oil that we're blind.

People complain about $4 per gallon now? What are you gonna do when it hit's $6? or $8? Are you gonna stop driving? Once it hit's $10 a gallon, and trucker's are filling 2 110 gallon tanks? HA! They arnt gonna do that, there's no money in it.

Food and good's will rise so much, this contery's gonna fall into anarchy and chaos. We need to revamp now, We dont need Ethonal, We dont need wood alcohol fueled cars.

We need to move fucking on! Hydrogen! Electric cars can be fueled off hydrogen fuel cells. Hydrogen doesnt produce pollution either, it produces water, ######'n water man!

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My dad bought a diesel truck to cut on gas prices. Now it's majorly biting him in the ass. He has to drive a massive work van around for his air conditioning job [he owns two air conditioning companies, does everything himself]. He's about to go back to the plain gasoline van if prices keep going up the way they are =/

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For a Diesel truck you can use Bio Diesel. The Diesel engine was orininaly supposed to run off of peanut oil, which it still can without any conversions. And Bio Diesel, all you have to do is filter the used oil you'd get from fast food joints and bars and such. It's a rather cheap alternative. But there's a lot of man hours involved in it.

Tell your dad to look into it, he might be pleasently supprised.

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Yea, he knows all about that jazz. His girlfriend is a natural/organic freak, there's nothing about that kind of thing he doesn't know T_T I'm not particularly a fan of bio-diesel, seeing as there are rice shortages over in Asia thanks to it >_>

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How the hell are there rice shortages in Asia because of it? It's made of bloody used vegetable oil.

I'm all in favor of using Hydrogen/ Hydrogen fuel cells in our vehicals.

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Wtfever the fuel is that's being made from rice, there's now a shortage of rice, or was x_x I don't like using my FOOD for a ton of metal speeding around at 60 mph.

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But you dont use rice for Bio diesel! Is rice even a vegatable?

If anything, you're thinking of Ethonal, which is a terrible idea. more expenseive in teh long run and half the yeild of gas.

Bio Diesel is made of either:

Palm oil

Sunflower sead oil

Peanut oil

Soybeans could probably be used

 

Ethonal is made of:

Sugar cane/ Sugar Beats

And Corn, but that's a horrible idea to begin with

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Well maybe I like my peanuts and sugar cane and sunflower oil being used for chips thank you very much >=[

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Here in Venezuela you can fill a SUV gas tank to the brim with Bs 4000.00 (BsF 4.00), which would be about... let me see..

 

 

...uuuumm... $1.86

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Well YEAH, that's why I'm for hydrogen/fuel cells and water to run our vehicals off of, not biofuel

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Well YEAH, that's why I'm for hydrogen/fuel cells and water to run our vehicals off of, not biofuel

 

Hydrogen cars = Nuclear Cataclysm in the long run

 

Just imagine a crash at high speed between two hydrogen cars. >.>

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I actually dont think that a nuclear explosion is going to happen if two hydrogen cars crashed into each other. I mean, I'm not a scientist, but that's never been brought up in any of the research I've done, in or out of school. Although I could ask a teacher or two on their oppinion of what would happen.

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I actually dont think that a nuclear explosion is going to happen if two hydrogen cars crashed into each other. I mean, I'm not a scientist, but that's never been brought up in any of the research I've done, in or out of school. Although I could ask a teacher or two on their oppinion of what would happen.

 

No no, sorry, I didn't mean that. I only mean that gasoline is dangerous, yes, it's inflammable. But liquid hydrogen? Are you really aware of the danger that is mass producing liquid hydrogen and sending it out to the streets in a casual fashion? I don't even wanna IMAGINE what those sick terrorist, anti-social minds will make with one full tank of liquid hydrogen.

 

they will have complete accessibility to something which is deadly at touch and explodes very easily, right below oxygen and helium. The pressure inside those tanks with liquid hydrogen is so intense, with the constant temp being the lowest possible, because if not the tank EXPLODES liberating the hydrogen which is evaporating... it's just a call for trouble.

 

Puncture a liquid hydrogen tank with a hole the size of a needle and it is enough for the temp to change enough for the liquid to turn gas and the gas to expand, blowing up and "escaping," which is what gases best do.

 

I never liked the idea of hydrogen cars. not only is it difficult to implement worldwide, but it is highly dangerous when in hands of the wrong people, extremely inflammable, causes violent explosions if set to fire, and finally its delicate temp balance is very risky to manage and if something goes wrong, well... nothing can go wrong cuz if it does, then nothing can be done about it.

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You make a good point there. But...

A fuel cell is an electrochemical device that combines hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity, with water and heat as its by-product. As long as fuel is supplied, the fuel cell will continue to generate power. Since the conversion of the fuel to energy takes place via an electrochemical process, not combustion, the process is clean, quiet and highly efficient ? two to three times more efficient than fuel burning.

 

No other energy generation technology offers the combination of benefits that fuel cells do. In addition to low or zero emissions, benefits include high efficiency and reliability, multi-fuel capability, siting flexibility, durability, scalability and ease of maintenance. Fuel cells operate silently, so they reduce noise pollution as well as air pollution and the waste heat from a fuel cell can be used to provide hot water or space heating for a home or office.

By the way, those are not my words.

 

But these are:

There's this new fuel just been pattened recently, called HHC fuel. It's in essence a hydrogen fuel cell. BUT it runs on water. It extracts the hydrogen from the water. And powers the car via that. Or so I believe that's the process.

 

here are a few short video on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIgOn1kRw5s...feature=related

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But we can't afford mass producing cars that have as part of their needs, or as their main necessity water, because if there is an international crisis as we speak concerning water in MANY countries in the world, using it for a car is as selfish as using land for bioethanol.

 

Air cars are the future. >.> [yes, they exist, yes, they are a prototype, yes, they work just as a normal car would, and no, I don't wann link to any page about them because I'm lazy.]

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The seccond video contains information about the use of salt water. How is that detromental to devoloping nations?

I would ask that you post some kind of information about them. Just for the sake of argument if nothing else.

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Air cars look cool. Air car crashes would be hella more lethal than normal car crashes now, though.

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I actually dont think that a nuclear explosion is going to happen if two hydrogen cars crashed into each other. I mean, I'm not a scientist, but that's never been brought up in any of the research I've done, in or out of school. Although I could ask a teacher or two on their oppinion of what would happen.

 

No no, sorry, I didn't mean that. I only mean that gasoline is dangerous, yes, it's inflammable. But liquid hydrogen? Are you really aware of the danger that is mass producing liquid hydrogen and sending it out to the streets in a casual fashion? I don't even wanna IMAGINE what those sick terrorist, anti-social minds will make with one full tank of liquid hydrogen.

 

they will have complete accessibility to something which is deadly at touch and explodes very easily, right below oxygen and helium. The pressure inside those tanks with liquid hydrogen is so intense, with the constant temp being the lowest possible, because if not the tank EXPLODES liberating the hydrogen which is evaporating... it's just a call for trouble.

 

Puncture a liquid hydrogen tank with a hole the size of a needle and it is enough for the temp to change enough for the liquid to turn gas and the gas to expand, blowing up and "escaping," which is what gases best do.

 

I never liked the idea of hydrogen cars. not only is it difficult to implement worldwide, but it is highly dangerous when in hands of the wrong people, extremely inflammable, causes violent explosions if set to fire, and finally its delicate temp balance is very risky to manage and if something goes wrong, well... nothing can go wrong cuz if it does, then nothing can be done about it.

 

Well back to that question you had Ikus. I've got an answer.

"Nothing.

 

Hydrogen is flammable, but it isn't exactly nitroglycerin. If you lit a match, it'd burn, and if it was under pressure, it'd explode. But just an impact or something wouldn't ignite it.

Fuel cells don't carry that much hydrogen anyway (If they're good that is, efficient fuel cells can recycle their load for a while. I don't know how good the cars we have now are).

 

The main question is this: Are you talking about actual fuel cell powered cars, or cars that just burn hydrogen instead of gas? Thing is, impact doesn't matter, what matters is an ignition source. If for some reason an impact caused a flame in a tank filled with hydrogen, that tank could explode. The only way that could happen here is by sparks from the impact, but at high speeds, cars would more likely crush like a tin can. If you broadside a car at 100 miles per hour, you'd tear it in half. In all likelihood, a tank filled with hydrogen gas would simply rupture and disperse.

A fuel cell is unlikely to explode at all, and even if it did, it wouldn't be a pretty large explosion.

 

So bottom line is, just like modern day gasoline powered cars, when they collide, they don't explode. In hollywood it happens all the time, but just how many news reports have you read about cars exploding after colliding on a freeway? It's just not that likely, though it's certainly possible. Something worth noting though, is that a hydrogen powered car (not a fuel cell) is more likely to ignite than a gas tank. If you fill a gas tank to the brim and drop a match in it, it might not even ignite at all, because it needs oxygen to burn. To blow up a gas tank you need to have the right mix of gas fumes and air. In a hydrogen tank, the hydrogen itself can burn no problem. So it is more likely to burn than gas, but it's still quiet safe overall."

 

Got the answer from a rather inteligent buddy of mine over on another site, he's never failed me before on information, so why would he fail now?

Edited by Willhelm

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It's like Louis said, Hydrogen isn't currently feasible. A tank of compressed hydrogen explodes 1000 times the capacity of it's container. Now say you had an 8lb tank (the kind used for gas grills) in your car. If it exploded it would affect more than just the two cars in collision, then those cars affect others. One crash has the potential to decimate an entire block.

 

It doesn't always explode, but since it's compressed it would shoot off like a rocket at something.

 

What we need is a compact electrolysis setup in a car. That way you could feed water into it, separate it for combustion, then recombine it as a by product. The problem is, it isn't feasible for a car, maybe a bus in the near future, but for now we need something compact.

 

---

 

I find it interesting that gas is $4 here and equivalent to $2 where Luis lives. I'd love to get my hands on OPEC about this, but as long as they make money it doesn't matter. The thing is, this is affecting everyone.

 

There was a recent special on Farmer subsidies lately, but the only thing they did was misinform everyone. The special noted that some farmers were getting up to a million in subsidies to farm every year, the thing is those are the corporate farmers. Those guys get a million bucks, where as small farmers, like my dad who got just $2000 this year, get next to nothing.

 

Naturally because crop prices have risen so have the things needed to produce a crop: Seeds, Machinery, Pesticide, Herbicide, and of course Diesel.

Now Bush, a Republican, getting feedback from Americans who were misinformed by this program, Vetoed the Subsidy bill. The problem with that is, were coming off of a drought.

 

What that means is last year we barely broke even, and with rising prices to farm - those subsidies are essentially the only thing keeping small time farmers' heads above water. Not to mention a seed shortage in the south east (due to the drought last year).

 

So what happens if these subsidies get cut? All of the small time farmers get fazed out, then the corps take over. If that happens they have the potential to hold the nation at its throat...literally.

 

=========================

 

There is a way to stop it. But it involves the only people in a position to bring the entire country to it's knees in a matter of two to three days.

Truckers.

 

If a large Truckers union were to go on strike for a week no gas would get delivered, no food, no products, no nothing. Truckers are the backbone of the economy, a large strike would damage the oil companies, and cause the government to take acts to prevent this, such as sticking it to these companies.

 

If this were to happen then it could be possible to get the oil to be at or around the same price it is in other countries, not inflated by these American distributors.

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I was talking to a friend of mine in australia she's getting gas for 1:35 a litre, which is about a third of a gallon I'd say? maybe a fourth, something like that... I've always been terrible with conversions. But they're paying more, is the point, in most conteries.

 

And didnt you read my last post. It explained what would happen if there was a crash.

The main question is this: Are you talking about actual fuel cell powered cars, or cars that just burn hydrogen instead of gas? Thing is, impact doesn't matter, what matters is an ignition source. If for some reason an impact caused a flame in a tank filled with hydrogen, that tank could explode. The only way that could happen here is by sparks from the impact, but at high speeds, cars would more likely crush like a tin can. If you broadside a car at 100 miles per hour, you'd tear it in half. In all likelihood, a tank filled with hydrogen gas would simply rupture and disperse.

A fuel cell is unlikely to explode at all, and even if it did, it wouldn't be a pretty large explosion.

 

the take would just rip appart, or crush. not explode.

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Thank you Cannon.

 

Yes Will, you got centered in the inflammability of Hydrogen, but you ignored another part of my post, which was what Cannon has already explained more thoroughly.

 

And yes Cannon, what you've said is true. I couldn't know about those details since, well, I don't live in USA to start with. But I do grasp the general idea of the latter half of your post.

 

Venezuela holds a firm grip over its oil companies, and subsidiaries have been expelled from the country, their contracts broken by irrefutable laws. What happened next was a total takeover of the government over the oil and gas companies (PDVSA for oil, PEQUIVEN for gas). Later we went for iron, diamond, gold, etc.

 

The point is, the government since the 1970s has had complete control over the oil consumption and distribution in the country, drastically reducing the gas prices due to the nonexistence of speculating second level industries that filter the crude price and increase it for their benefits.

 

This gas price reduction has, nevertheless, started to be harmful to the government itself. Why? There is not enough internal monetary gains from the gas, and the gas reserves and revenues have lowered, forcing our external politics to become harsher and harsher concerning the distribution of oil internationally. USA, being one of the main buyers of our crude, have suffered the most from the radical politics of Venezuela.

 

And how did the oil price rise so much? The OPEC, which follows whatever Chavez says these days, has restrained the oil distribution, naturally lowering the available stocks and supplies and rising the prices of the oil barrel to the unbelievable amount we see today ($135-140). The other oil markets, such as Exxon, have had to rise their prices as well due to international pressure set by the OPEC, but they have had more revenues than the OPEC due to a shift in stocks and support of the international secondary markets.

 

So it all ends in a "competition" between the main oil markets considering the price of the oil barrel and the amount of income obtained from them, all due to bad economic politics in many countries of the world, Venezuela included.

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Sorry for the double post, but Will, if you PUNCTURE a tank with liquid hydrogen it would evaporate into gas hydrogen so quickly and violently that it would explode, no need of an ignition point of spark. The released pressure itself would work alone.

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...

 

Well, apparently salt water burns exactly like gasoline (for some weeeeird reason...).

 

And this planet is made up of mostly salt water.

 

Convienient, huh? The price of salt water would be like...a few cents per gallon, because the supply is so high compared to any possible demand.

 

And Cannon's pretty much right about...well, everything. Not to mention that a Trucker strike will end up being inevitable if gas prices continue rising, but that, unfortunately, would be unlikely to help do anything other than MAYBE lower gas and diesel prices. Wouldn't do much else.

 

 

Also, Venezuela produces it's own oil, and unlike the US, it probably uses it's own oil as well. So...that is an explanation of why Louis doesn't have to pay as much.

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Saying that about Venezuela dosnt make much sense though... we get majority of our oil from Canada...

I think we do need a trucker strike actually.

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