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I'm a bit bewildered by your post DM... How is something as zoologically advanced as tools a bad thing for survival? It's the reason some animal species are still alive today. And every animal who uses a tool makes them. Certain apes take a rock and a stick and sharpens the stick to make a more powerful weapon. Beaver dams are structurally advanced for a creature like them, and ravens throw nuts on roads so cars will run over them to crack them open. All of these has helped the survival of the animals in offensive, defensive, and supplemental areas respectively. Clearly when it comes to survival, brains triumph over brawn. However, animals simply were not yet evolved enough to completely use these, so the physically strongest was the one who would survive. Now however, while we may not have the best physical fitness of the animal kingdom, our brains have allowed to become the most fearsome creature on the planet. Physical fitness is, evolutionarily, obsolete.

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He didn't say that using tools was bad seele, he said that having to use tools was bad.

 

Basically, because humans are fragile in nature, there are many instances where, if we didn't have our minds, we couldn't survive. Sure physically we could take on some animals, but environmentally we are one of the weakest species on the planet. Go ahead and kill that rat, but when winter comes he'll be laughing from his grave watching you shiver to death.

 

What he was saying with his post (correct me if I'm wrong DM) is that it's bad that we have to rely on tools, because we physically have very little to fall back on.

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Cannon summed it up exactly.

 

And none of your examples, SEELE, were what I meant.

 

Humans are not strong, and we are not fast. All we are is smart. Most animal species can easily destroy us if we don't have any tools to protect us. We have little fur, forcing us to rely on other animal's fur to keep us warm. We have no sharp teeth or claws to protect us if we're attacked.

 

In reality, humans are more likely a fluke of evolution that just happened to get really, really lucky than anything else. Logic states that we should be extinct.

 

Or God wanted it this way, whichever one you like best.

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Yeah but what Seele is saying is the very fact that we can use these tools makes us better than any other creature out there. It's not a contest of what's the most powerful creature without tools, it's just what's the most powerful creature. And give a man an AK-47 and he can take down any animal trying to attack.

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Ah, but it took several thousand years just for homo sapiens just to create guns, and several tens of thousands of years before homo sapiens came to exist! And for most of those several tens of thousands of years, all our lesser ancestors had were rocks and sticks. Which, of course, the later ones actually made into tools. Tools like spears to defend themselves.

 

These primitive humans shouldn't have survived. Intelligence and the ability to utilize tools doesn't make up for the lack of speed and strength that they had, especially because of their very limited intelligence, period. Humans are most likely a fluke of evolution that just happened to get extremely lucky. Period.

 

 

And most importantly, we aren't fast. At all. Humans are extremely slow. Most animals outrun us. Easily. How the hell did our African ancestors manage not to get mauled to extinction?

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Either you have trumped 20% of the science community, or you are simply a bit confused. Intelligence is much more valuable than physical strength. The tools made by primitives of old far out ranged any sharp "weapon" any animal had at the time. Just waving a spear in front of an attacker would easily fend it off. You are also underestimating the intelligence of early man. While they are obviously no where near as cognitive as we are, they are still able to wrap themselves in the fur of a woolly mammoth, find better escape routes from predators, and most of importantly of all, create fire. These creatures could have easily survived back then. Easily.

 

We are loosing our body to our own intelligence. We went from strong hairy ape man to weak frail homo sapien sapien, and we will get even weaker than that as we evolve. I can see what you mean when you say how having to use tools is a bad thing, in that they are lost very easily. They aren't attached to our body, any deadly animal can swipe a knife or tranquilizer out of our hands, this is the cost of having the intelligence to make and improve said weapons. This is also why hair is considered vestigial, our clothes are our hair, removable for whatever reason and easily maintained. Yet if we are poorly equipped in any of these, we are just as safe as a hermit crab without its shell. That still doesn't change the fact that we now have to power to destroy entire cities. What I mean to say is, when a species learns how to use a tool, invention is bound to follow. Tools evolve as we do, at a much faster rate in fact. Humans as a whole are the most powerful thing on Earth, but just one of us, unarmed and uncovered, is very weak.

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>.>

 

Actually, I believe it was homo sapiens who first thought of clothing and the like. Then again, our species came about during an ice age, so no duh.

 

Homo Erectus figured out how to use fire, and were about as intelligent as a three-year-old child.

 

Homo Habilis (think it's that) started using the slightly more advanced tools like simple hammers and axes, and most likely simple spears. They came before Homo Erectus.

 

Any earlier pre-humans had only rocks and sticks. And minimal intelligence.

 

 

 

And, also...

 

If intelligence trumps strength, then the obvious course of evolution would have made more creatures smarter rather than stronger. It's exactly the opposite, and humans are truly the only lifeforms on our planet that ended up smart rather than strong. The larger brains require more energy to keep going, taking it away from the muscles.

 

Humans are lacking in the speed and strength category. The fact that we managed to survive is either the will of God or a fluke of evolution gone wrong.

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Did you completely ignore the first paragraph of my last post? That thing mentioned were more than enough to survive back then. If a little weather and predators is going to do anything to mammals as advanced as that, then you have just "proven" that there was no way mammals could have survived the Mesozoic Era. Dinosaurs would have ate, and whatever made them extinct would have finished them off. But they have clearly survived, and most of them were even weaker than humans. Also, many famous explorers and their crew have died off from the cold even with their guns and clothing. Yet the Inuit Indians have been living just fine before they even made contact with them. They were used to to the environment and knew all the tricks of the trade. It took early man many years to ADAPT to his environment, but in the end, he was still able to survive. Having man survive those harsh times was not surprising. What would be surprising is if evolution improved the mammalian brain up to the level of sapience only to have them die off. That would not make any sense.

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Nature doesn't do anything. Nature is there, yes, but it isn't a conscious being. Nature didn't decide to create humans, it was by pure, unlikely chance that we came about. And if it did decide to create us, it was a bad decision on Nature's part NOT to have us killed off. <_<

 

Let me put it this way, our early ancestors, who were living in Africa, walked...fairly straight. They also happened to be walking around in the middle of the African Savannah, so they were most likely easy targets for most predators, who were also faster and stronger then they were. Our earliest ancestors only had rocks and sticks for protection.

 

Basically, the only probable reason that humans survived was luck and teamwork. Intelligence doesn't really do a damn bit of good for you in the wild.

 

 

Yes, by the Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens coming about, we were basically set and guaranteed survival. Which was during the current Ice Age. (Never...really left, just receded a lot.) Heck, even the Homo Erectus had good protection, with them discovering fire to keep em' warm and scare away predators.

 

Also, your comment about mammals isn't really that good, considering most mammals were ratlike, and were small and were able to hide easily as to not be noticed. Humans...are kind of big, clumsy, and we tend to make our presence known.

 

My point is, humans were most likely a fluke of evolution. (Actually, definitely, considering how destructive we are.) An intelligent gene shouldn't have lasted as long as it did, as it replaced a gene for speed or strength, which is bad for the creature who is more intelligent.

 

Humans shouldn't have survived.

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Oh!

 

I discovered the TRUE thing that sets humans apart from animals!

 

You guys ready?

 

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...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Humans....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

are..............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...the only species of life so absolutely obsessed with the plant life growing outside of their shelter that they have to cut it to a certain length once a week just because they feel that it looks nice (and of course, adds other plant life in cultures to make their shelter look pretty).

 

:lol:

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It's true isn't it? What other species of living being is as paranoid about cutting their lawn as we are? Nor do other species plant gardens intentionally.

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You just won the topic SEELE. Even if there was nothing to win anyway. You simply did.

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ACTUALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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USING CAPS AND LOT'S OF EXCLAIMATION POINTS BEATS

JUST CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Seriously, didn't my little joke get a chuckle out of anyone???

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No, but Ben's joke did.

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cruisecontrolcj2.jpg

 

 

GYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So Over That?

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